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 Post subject: Big Brother's got a lot of bottle
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 1:39 
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but perhaps it's time to put a cork in it

Mark Lawson
Thursday August 4, 2005
The Guardian
Guardian

Although Day 67 of the sixth series of Big Brother will go down in the history of reality TV for the sight of a pissed young woman ********** with a wine bottle, it's arguable that the most shocking scenes occurred during the first commercial break: an advert for the movie Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, certificate PG.

Channel 4 will doubtless argue that Tim Burton's films have an adult audience as well. But, if a marketing agency is buying television slots between 10pm and 11pm to push a film aimed at children, it can be taken as an acknowledgement that the series, although transmitted beyond the watershed, is watched by many teenagers and perhaps even younger viewers. It's this possibility that makes Kinga's gross improvisation of a wine rack significant.

Over the past 30 years - since Kenneth Tynan provoked parliamentary motions and calls for his hanging in 1965 by becoming the first person to say "****" on television - taboos on the tube have tumbled at an astonishing rate.
In the same edition of Big Brother in which the housemates worried that Kinga would lose her bottle, the f-word was spoken at least 100 times, unbleeped. Tynan's ghost must have laughed at housemate Craig complaining of a fellow contestant: "Then he said: 'Language!' Who the **** is he to say that?"

But who is anyone to say it now? In the past two years, John Lydon and Jordan have used the c-word live without career consequences. And, in a previous series of Big Brother, a couple became the first in Britain apparently to have sex on factual television.

The attitude of television regulator Ofcom is that broadcasting decorum depends on "labelling" and "expectation." It would be a serious matter if the choir of St Anne's suddenly burst into a chorus from Jerry Springer: The Opera during Songs of Praise because the show's audience had no reason to think this might occur. But, conversely, anyone tuning into a reality TV series - a genre predicated on causing shocks - is assumed to have forgiving ears and eyes.

It was also generally thought that, after Rebecca Loos pleasured a pig in Five's The Farm, there were no moral barriers for TV left to cross.

Yet, even for a veteran of reality TV, Kinga's misunderstanding of the products of vineyards was a landmark moment of depravity. Even if Channel 4 can prove that no one under the age of 18 was watching, the question arises of whether even adults should be watching this stuff.

The traditional argument of regulators is that controversial moments should be judged by context. It's a fair point: Lydon's c-word outburst, for example, was a brief loss of control during a live transmission. But Tuesday's scenes occurred in a recorded and edited programme. And Kinga's disappearing trick was actually made worse by the context of the show around it.

Never has there been such loss of dignity in a single hour of TV. Housemate Makosi, in one of the most disturbing broadcast moments since David Icke confided to Terry Wogan that he was the Messiah, announced in the diary room that she was able to speak only with her eyes closed. When asked why by the unseen voice, she replied: "I can't tell you. It's not safe."

Then Craig had wept and yelled during what appeared to be a nervous breakdown, screaming about the other residents: "They're evil! They all are!" Then Kinga, in the moments before she opened up a surprising branch of Oddbins, also sobbed in sodden distress.

Reality television has always been vulnerable to the charge that it trades on psychologically unstable contestants. In edition 67 of series six, there were at least three contestants who looked as if they would easily have got a sick-chit from a shrink.

In pubs and on aeroplanes, they stop serving drink to people who are at risk of embarrassing themselves or others. Yet, in the Big Brother house, nothing stops the fragile from getting smashed and nothing spares them from the consequences: not even editing. After six years of escalating excess, it may be time for this show to bottle out.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 1:50 
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I risk coming over all Mary Whitehouse....But in the school hols my 14 yr old daughter and I have regarded BB 'sumary'as some downtime to eat crisps,chocolate and her to share a glass of wine with me...Thankfully shes working this week and went to bed before 10 last night(a first!!)..but the point is BB has marketed itself to the teen/young adult audience...an age group that may not have the supervision younger children would :-?

Yes...It ISpost watershed....but I'm not sure who should be exposed to antics like Kingas...(And am no way a prude)


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 2:39 
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hmm.

It has always amused me that BBLB - which promotes the main highlights show, probably has a primary audience between the ages of 11-15. Sure, all the callers are 18+.

What did Kinga do so wrong though?
A wine bottle, partly slipped inside, and then got off on the lawn. So bloody what. There is no doubt that some children will have seen it, and will have been talking about it today with their friends whilst on summer holiday.

Yet, the very parents so upset by such things, are probably more than happy to buy their kids computer games where the aim is to shoot, rape, and kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Thats all fine and good to some, and yet the very same people get so upset if a 20yr old woman wants to openly pleasure herself on the grass in the early hours of the morning.

Meanwhile we have global warming, terrorism, and looming food/water shortages for even some in Western Society. Reality TV as a distraction tool for the mass unwashed?
---
Calrissian: rant over.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 2:52 
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Good rant Cal ....

Makosi made it worse twisting the knief like she always does.

Kinga had mock sex with the bottle, which is a lot more harmless than claiming possible pregancy and obortion just for air time .


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 4:27 
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We might have to do as Aus BB does in the future...have a weekly x-rated show on at about 1am that features all the stuff too hot for the regular highlights!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 10:40 
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Calrissian wrote:
hmm.

It has always amused me that BBLB - which promotes the main highlights show, probably has a primary audience between the ages of 11-15. Sure, all the callers are 18+.

What did Kinga do so wrong though?
A wine bottle, partly slipped inside, and then got off on the lawn. So bloody what. There is no doubt that some children will have seen it, and will have been talking about it today with their friends whilst on summer holiday.

Yet, the very parents so upset by such things, are probably more than happy to buy their kids computer games where the aim is to shoot, rape, and kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Thats all fine and good to some, and yet the very same people get so upset if a 20yr old woman wants to openly pleasure herself on the grass in the early hours of the morning.

Meanwhile we have global warming, terrorism, and looming food/water shortages for even some in Western Society. Reality TV as a distraction tool for the mass unwashed?
---
Calrissian: rant over.


I dont buy my kids computer games :-?
They are kids and I want them to enjoy being that not to enter adulthood at some premature age :-?
Am sorry to sound puritan (and I am in no way a prude), but I really do not see how someone simulating sex with a bottle is entertainment for any age group.I found it embarrassing and cringeworthy.

Funny how times change....2 years ago there was outrage over Rays duvet activities....today it seems acceptable to show someone hump a bottle.....

Perhaps this show just isnt for me


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 12:42 
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Starlet wrote:
We might have to do as Aus BB does in the future...have a weekly x-rated show on at about 1am that features all the stuff too hot for the regular highlights!


The Australian Governmant are debating whether to CLOSE the BB show just because of the X RATED content which is viewed by mainly YOUNG Teens {@} {@}


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 12:55 
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pikeylass wrote:
Calrissian wrote:
hmm.

It has always amused me that BBLB - which promotes the main highlights show, probably has a primary audience between the ages of 11-15. Sure, all the callers are 18+.

What did Kinga do so wrong though?
A wine bottle, partly slipped inside, and then got off on the lawn. So bloody what. There is no doubt that some children will have seen it, and will have been talking about it today with their friends whilst on summer holiday.

Yet, the very parents so upset by such things, are probably more than happy to buy their kids computer games where the aim is to shoot, rape, and kill as many innocent civilians as possible. Thats all fine and good to some, and yet the very same people get so upset if a 20yr old woman wants to openly pleasure herself on the grass in the early hours of the morning.

Meanwhile we have global warming, terrorism, and looming food/water shortages for even some in Western Society. Reality TV as a distraction tool for the mass unwashed?
---
Calrissian: rant over.


I dont buy my kids computer games :-?
They are kids and I want them to enjoy being that not to enter adulthood at some premature age :-?
Am sorry to sound puritan (and I am in no way a prude), but I really do not see how someone simulating sex with a bottle is entertainment for any age group.I found it embarrassing and cringeworthy.

Funny how times change....2 years ago there was outrage over Rays duvet activities....today it seems acceptable to show someone hump a bottle.....

Perhaps this show just isnt for me


I'm no puritan either, but even I thought that it was a bit OTT from Kinga. Also the people who complained about what they saw are probably the EXACTLY the same sort of people who complain about video games, violence in movies, obsenities in music - so they are being consistant

like I've said before I wasn't offended enough to complain (mainly because I'm extremely liberal/tolerant) but I'm not gonna condemn those who did.

Eventually a natural limit has to be created for what is or isn't acceptable viewing on terrestrial telly (there are different rules for multi-channel stations)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 13:45 
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JimD wrote:
Starlet wrote:
We might have to do as Aus BB does in the future...have a weekly x-rated show on at about 1am that features all the stuff too hot for the regular highlights!


The Australian Governmant are debating whether to CLOSE the BB show just because of the X RATED content which is viewed by mainly YOUNG Teens {@} {@}


hardcore porn is watched by 'some' teens - but does that mean is should be illegal, any more reason that banning it cause some religious cult leader says its sinful to touch ourselves or think 'impure thoughts'.

It remains weird that BBLB is on prime time kids TV afternoon time.

Cal: time to cook


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 15:17 
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I don't expect or want to see a young girl sticking a wine bottle up herself on a reality TV show - it was so tacky and I was disguested by it. BB shouldn't have shown it - the shot of Ant's face said it all.

Choosing to watch professionals perform sex acts in a porn movie is one thing - excusing regular people for performing sex acts in the way that Kinga did on a reality TV show by saying 'it's only natural' is a sad reflection on the way our society is heading. Sex is a natural function that should remain private, same as other bodily functions. IMO

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 15:24 
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I aggree disgusting. But then at the same time they are always being slated on forums for selective editing. If they never showed it there would be about 10 threads about Kinga being 'the chosen one'.

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 15:50 
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Geena wrote:
Choosing to watch professionals perform sex acts in a porn movie is one thing - excusing regular people for performing sex acts in the way that Kinga did on a reality TV show by saying 'it's only natural' is a sad reflection on the way our society is heading.


So, rather than a reflection of society, you'd like a 'above average group of housemates'. Housemates that don't want to have sex every day - whether on their own, or with others. Housemates that don't swear, that don't talk about sex, that don't get utterly drunk out of their heads.

Society ain't pretty.
You say you don't want to see Kinga play on the lawn? Thats fine. As I say though, millions of women (and some men) will be sticking all sorts of objects inside themselves today.
THAT is part of society, and BB is reflecting the smallest amount of it.

*I'm well aware of how Kinga's family will have reacted to Tuesday's show, absolute horror etc etc. Yet, Kinga wanted on the show. She wanted to drink herself stupid, and part of her personality - as C4/Endemol are well aware, is a somewhat open sexuality.

30 yrs ago, if you even dared admit you were gay, you'd be jailed. Today, we have Craig literally fawning all over his 'precious' Anthony, with Kemal talking overtly about skips and swallowing.

As some have recognised, where will society be in 2030 or 2100? Rather tedious and nasty deceit, bitching, and lies...will we instead focus on a pleasure...and have a BB house full of housemates pleasing each other?

Can you imagine, the housemate to get evicted is done not on the basis of how much we hate them, but on how little pleasure they give to the others? I'd much rather watch that a show of pleasure, rather than one of nastyness, wouldn't you?

Calrissian: pleasure oriented.


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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 19:49 
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Calrissian wrote:
Geena wrote:
Choosing to watch professionals perform sex acts in a porn movie is one thing - excusing regular people for performing sex acts in the way that Kinga did on a reality TV show by saying 'it's only natural' is a sad reflection on the way our society is heading.


So, rather than a reflection of society, you'd like a 'above average group of housemates'. Housemates that don't want to have sex every day - whether on their own, or with others. Housemates that don't swear, that don't talk about sex, that don't get utterly drunk out of their heads.

Society ain't pretty.
You say you don't want to see Kinga play on the lawn? Thats fine. As I say though, millions of women (and some men) will be sticking all sorts of objects inside themselves today.
THAT is part of society, and BB is reflecting the smallest amount of it.

*I'm well aware of how Kinga's family will have reacted to Tuesday's show, absolute horror etc etc. Yet, Kinga wanted on the show. She wanted to drink herself stupid, and part of her personality - as C4/Endemol are well aware, is a somewhat open sexuality.

30 yrs ago, if you even dared admit you were gay, you'd be jailed. Today, we have Craig literally fawning all over his 'precious' Anthony, with Kemal talking overtly about skips and swallowing.

As some have recognised, where will society be in 2030 or 2100? Rather tedious and nasty deceit, bitching, and lies...will we instead focus on a pleasure...and have a BB house full of housemates pleasing each other?

Can you imagine, the housemate to get evicted is done not on the basis of how much we hate them, but on how little pleasure they give to the others? I'd much rather watch that a show of pleasure, rather than one of nastyness, wouldn't you?

Calrissian: pleasure oriented.



:wave: @Cal

Actually,no, I'd rather an average group of hm that don't have sex everyday - or else, sex under duvets if they can't control their sex urge for what is only a couple of weeks for heavens sake!. I bet there are lots of men and women without a partner who can and do control their sex urges and for longer periods than a couple of weeks. However, I've no problem with hm getting drunk, swearing or talking about sex, just like regular folk do.

It goes without saying, millions of women and men do all sorts sex wise every day otherwise we wouldn't have a society - the difference is, they mostly do it in private. People willing to exhibit themselves like Kinga are still (hopefully) a small part of our society and in todays society full of fatal diseases her and other hm's lurid sexual behaviour (coz that's all it is) shouldn't be encouraged with the lure of media fame by TV companies like Endemol - of course, it's up to us viewers to complain to Endemol if we are offended by them showing a sex act performed we would normally expect to see in a porn movie. I was offended, I did complain and I won't watch in future if we are to expect more of the 'wine bottle' incident.

From reading threads on this forum I see most of us have complained about the amount of malicious bitching and lies in this years BB and I'm sure most of us will...if it's not happened already, then very soon I hope.. find they are jaded with watching shows like BB because of all the nastyness, sexual or otherwise. So, no I wouldn't rather watch hm pleasuring themselves or each other in a sexual way - I can get that from a porn movie if I feel the need. I'd rather watch a group of hm's interacting and coping with life without some of the pleasures they would normally enjoy on the outside for a couple of weeks - silly me! I thought that was the whole concept of BB.

It kills me to admit but my partner was right when he predicted a few years ago that TV shows like BB and people like me who watch them will make celebrities out of people whose only claim to fame will be their notoriety, one of the reasons I always want the nicer if boring person to win is to help stop that happening. I'll stay with this years BB till the end coz I wont admit to my partner that he was right - but that's it for me after this year, I@m jaded with BB now.

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 19:57 
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Good post Geena.I cuoldnt have phrased it better ()^


Pikeylass:Off out to buy a bottle of wine to entertain herself tonight {@} )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 04 Aug 05, 21:18 
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Agree totally Geena :D

Well of the stuff I read, could someone whose read this entire thread give me a brief synopsis please :D

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