I am appaled that anyones belief warrent a 3 year prison term.
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| David Irving arrested in Austria http://www.bbfans.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=23270 |
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| Author: | Madeline [ 17 Nov 05, 23:46 ] |
| Post subject: | David Irving arrested in Austria |
Austria holds 'Holocaust denier' Irving maintains his conclusions come from serious research British revisionist historian David Irving is being held in Austria under laws against denying the Holocaust. An interior ministry spokesman said police in the province of Styria acted on a warrant issued in 1989 to arrest him last Friday. Mr Irving was on his way to give a lecture in the capital, Vienna. In his books, Mr Irving has argued that the scale of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis in World War II has been exaggerated. He also claimed that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler knew nothing of the Holocaust. He told a libel hearing in London in 2000 that there had been no gas chambers at the Auschwitz camp. He lost the case and the judge branded him "an active Holocaust denier". 'Anti-Semitic' A spokesman for the Austrian interior ministry, Rudolf Gollia, told the BBC that Mr Irving was first taken to the town of Graz, but was now in custody in Vienna. Anti-Nazi groups in the UK congratulated the Austrian government. The chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust, Lord Greville Janner, said he hoped the move would "lead to a successful prosecution". The head of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said denial was not a matter of opinion. "Austrian law demands incisive action to protect its citizens from a repeat of the past," he added. Mr Irving was previously arrested in Austria in 1984. This time, the historian was stopped near the town of Hartberg while reportedly on his way to address a students' club in Vienna. Mr Irving came into the spotlight in 2000 when he sued US academic Deborah Lipstadt for describing him as a "Holocaust denier" in her 1994 work Denying the Holocaust: The Growing Assault on Truth and Memory. Giving his verdict, the British judge said Mr Irving was "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism". BBC |
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| Author: | Madeline [ 22 Nov 05, 23:00 ] |
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Charges prepared against Irving Mr Irving denies Hitler knew Jews were being systematically killed Austrian authorities have prepared charges against British historian David Irving, who was arrested 11 days ago. The charges are linked to speeches he made in 1989 denying the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz, prosecutor Otto Schneider has said. Mr Irving, 67, can appeal against the charges under Austrian law. Mr Irving sued US historian Deborah Lipstadt in London in 2000 for labelling him a Holocaust denier. He lost in a comprehensive verdict. He is currently in custody in Vienna after having been arrested in the province of Styria on 11 November. A hearing has been scheduled for Friday to determine whether he should remain in custody for up to four more weeks. COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL Austria Belgium Czech Republic France Germany Israel Lithuania Poland Slovakia Switzerland No trial has been scheduled yet. Despite the mortal blow to his reputation in 2000, he remains a showman and may well relish the opportunity to grandstand before a wider audience if put on trial, BBC legal affairs analyst Jon Silverman says. In his books, Mr Irving has argued that the scale of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis in World War II has been exaggerated. He has also claimed that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler knew nothing of the Holocaust. Mr Irving was previously arrested in Austria in 1984. BBC |
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| Author: | JimD [ 25 Nov 05, 18:41 ] |
| Post subject: | Austrians refuse bail for Irving |
Austrian authorities have refused bail for British historian David Irving, who is facing Holocaust denial charges. Mr Irving, 67, was arrested on 11 November in connection with two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989. Mr Irving's lawyer has said the historian now no longer denies that gas chambers existed in Nazi death camps. Mr Irving can appeal against the charges under Austrian law. No trial date has been set yet. He could face up to 10 years in jail if found guilty. A court in Vienna ruled on Friday that Mr Irving must stay in custody as there was a risk he could abscond. His lawyer Elmar Kresbach had offered to post bail. Mr Irving is accused of having denied the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz in two speeches he made in Vienna and Leoben in 1989. Mr Irving sued US historian Deborah Lipstadt in London in 2000 for labelling him a Holocaust denier. He lost in a comprehensive verdict. Despite the mortal blow to his reputation in 2000, he remains a showman and may well relish the opportunity to grandstand before a wider audience if put on trial, BBC legal affairs analyst Jon Silverman says. In his books, Mr Irving has argued that the scale of the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis in World War II has been exaggerated. He has also claimed that Nazi leader Adolf Hitler knew nothing of the Holocaust. Mr Irving was previously arrested in Austria in 1984. Story from : BBC NEWS Published: 2005/11/25 15:54:59 GMT |
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| Author: | Martianessa [ 25 Nov 05, 18:46 ] |
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Is he denying the Holocaust because he wants attention or does he generaly believe it never happened? Either way he's one screwed up historian who needs help and not a prison sentence. |
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| Author: | JimD [ 13 Dec 05, 18:21 ] |
| Post subject: | UK historian to face Austrian Holocaust trial |
reuters Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:38 PM GMT VIENNA (Reuters) - An Austrian court will begin the trial of British historian David Irving in February on charges of denying the Holocaust, a court spokesman said on Tuesday. Irving was arrested in the southern province of Styria last month under a warrant issued in 1989 and has since been remanded in custody and charged with denying the Holocaust, a crime in Austria which carries a sentence of one to 10 years in prison. "Irving's trial will take place on February 20 and 21 from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. (0800-1500 GMT)," said a spokesman for the Vienna regional court. "I can't say any more on that now," he added. Irving's Web site (http://www.fpp.co.uk) said he had been invited by students to address a university association in Austria. In a message dated November 11, it said he was on a one-day visit to the Austrian capital. When driving to the meeting in Vienna, students noticed plainclothes detectives waiting for him, Irving told Austrian weekly magazine News last month. He changed plans and drove to Graz in the southern province of Styria to visit one of his publishers. Police stopped him on the motorway and detained him. |
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| Author: | Madeline [ 20 Feb 06, 16:05 ] |
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Irving pleads guilty over Holocaust Right-wing British historian David Irving pleaded guilty to criminal charges of denying the Holocaust and conceded he erred in contending there were no Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz as his trial opened in Vienna. Irving, 67, told reporters he now acknowledged that the Nazis systematically slaughtered Jews during the Second World War. "History is like a constantly changing tree," he said as an eight-member jury and a panel of three judges prepared to hear charges that could put him behind bars for up to 10 years. Irving, handcuffed and wearing a navy blue suit, arrived at the court carrying a copy of one of his most controversial books - Hitler's War, which challenges the extent of the Holocaust. "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," Irving told the court, speaking in German. But he insisted he never wrote a book about the Holocaust, which he called "just a fragment of my area of interest." "In no way did I deny the killings of millions of people by the Nazis," Irving testified. Earlier, he told journalists he considered it "ridiculous" that he was standing trial for remarks made 17 years ago. He has been in custody since his arrest in November on charges stemming from two speeches he gave in Austria in 1989 in which he was accused of denying the Nazis' extermination of six million Jews. The state attorney's office said the 1989 remarks were "a dangerous violation of freedom of speech". A verdict was expected later on Monday, with a conviction almost certain because of Irving's guilty plea. Irving's trial comes amid new - and fierce - debate over freedom of expression in Europe, where the printing and reprinting of unflattering cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad has triggered violent protests worldwide. Irving had tried to win his provisional release on 20,000 euros (£13,700) bail, but a Vienna court refused, saying it considered him a flight risk. [url=http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news.html?story=1Daily Star[/url] |
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| Author: | Calrissian [ 20 Feb 06, 17:38 ] |
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I find it disturbing that someone who believes merely that 'event X' never happened, is now deemed a 'serious criminal'. A belief in a certain historical perspective is illegal, and many people think this is fine? Jeez, what a sick society. Das Fuhrer would be proud of such a 'illegal beliefs' law, and in many ways...current mainstream society has some distinctly nazi style laws. So much for freedom in the 21'st century. ---- Hey, why not also criminalise... 1. people that don't believe in Jesus, Moses, or any of those other religious figures 2. those who believe the moon landings were faked 3. those who believe that C4/Endemol fixed BB4 - All those who follow such nazi 'lets ban it' thinking will get what they deserve...sooner or later. Whether it be a strain of influenza or an ICBM from one of those friendly islamic states, the narrow minded 'ban it' societies are inherently self-destructive in the end. Calrissian: wiating for those crazy Israelis to attack Iran in March |
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| Author: | Madeline [ 20 Feb 06, 22:43 ] |
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I am appaled that anyones belief warrent a 3 year prison term.
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| Author: | Madeline [ 20 Feb 06, 22:45 ] |
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Holocaust denier Irving is jailed David Irving arrived at court carrying a copy of one of his books British historian David Irving has been found guilty in Vienna of denying the Holocaust of European Jewry and sentenced to three years in prison. He had pleaded guilty to the charge, based on a speech and interview he gave in Austria in 1989. "I made a mistake when I said there were no gas chambers at Auschwitz," he told the court in the Austrian capital. Irving appeared stunned by the sentence, and told reporters: "I'm very shocked and I'm going to appeal." An unidentified onlooker told him: "Stay strong!". Irving's lawyer said he considered the verdict "a little too stringent". "I would say it's a bit of a message trial," said Elmar Kresbach. Karen Pollock, chief executive of the UK's Holocaust Educational Trust welcomed the verdict. "Holocaust denial is anti-Semitism dressed up as intellectual debate. It should be regarded as such and treated as such," Ms Pollock told the BBC News website. But the author and academic Deborah Lipstadt, who Irving unsuccessfully sued for libel in the UK in 2000 over claims that he was a Holocaust denier, said she was dismayed. "I am not happy when censorship wins, and I don't believe in winning battles via censorship... The way of fighting Holocaust deniers is with history and with truth," she told the BBC News website. Fears that the court case would provoke right-wing demonstrations and counter-protests did not materialise, the BBC's Ben Brown at the court in Vienna said. Irving arrived in the court room handcuffed, wearing a blue suit, and carrying a copy of Hitler's War, one of many books he has written on the Nazis, and which challenges the extent of the Holocaust. Irving was arrested in Austria in November, on a warrant dating back to 1989, when he gave a speech and interview denying the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz. He was stopped by police on a motorway in southern Austria, where he was visiting to give a lecture to a far-right student fraternity. He has been held in custody since then. 'I've changed' During the one-day trial, he was questioned by the prosecutor and chief judge, and answered questions in fluent German. He admitted that in 1989 he had denied that Nazi Germany had killed millions of Jews. He said this is what he believed, until he later saw the personal files of Adolf Eichmann, the chief organiser of the Holocaust. "I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn't saying that anymore and I wouldn't say that now," Irving told the court. "The Nazis did murder millions of Jews." In the past, he had claimed that Adolf Hitler knew little, if anything, about the Holocaust, and that the gas chambers were a hoax. COUNTRIES WITH LAWS AGAINST HOLOCAUST DENIAL Austria Belgium Czech Republic France Germany Israel Lithuania Poland Romania Slovakia Switzerland The judge in his 2000 libel trial declared him "an active Holocaust denier... anti-Semitic and racist". On Monday, before the trial began, he told reporters: "I'm not a Holocaust denier. Obviously, I've changed my views. "History is a constantly growing tree - the more you know, the more documents become available, the more you learn, and I have learned a lot since 1989." Asked how many Jews were killed by Nazis, he replied: "I don't know the figures. I'm not an expert on the Holocaust." Of his guilty plea, he told reporters: "I have no choice." He said it was "ridiculous" that he was being tried for expressing an opinion. "Of course it's a question of freedom of speech... I think within 12 months this law will have vanished from the Austrian statute book," he said. BBC |
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| Author: | BBoop [ 20 Feb 06, 22:48 ] |
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I can't believe someone can deny the Holocaust existed. It makes no sense to me. We are all entitled to an opinion and I'm sure no one is listening but having recently read the book ''The Forgotten voices of the Holocaust'' to say it never happened is a downright insult to the survivors and victims. |
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| Author: | Calrissian [ 20 Feb 06, 23:59 ] |
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An 'insult' yes, but that is irrelevent. If I insult you, does that mean I should be locked up or terminated? I suppose 'some' are all for such nonsense laws, but not that majority who'd just ignore any idiots with weird beliefs. As for case in question, being held in Austria. That country is clearly still guilt ridden (and rightly so) after their complicity with the Nazi filth of the 30s and 40s. *It is particularly interesting in that one of the charges against the man in question was that he merely disputed the death totals as generally thrown around in history books. There is very little agreement over how many were executed. The fact that even questioning previous estimates of death is now illegal...thats a sign that there are still some serious misdirected guilt>blame in parts of mainland Europe. Calrissian: Jack Bauer awaits. |
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| Author: | trolleydolley [ 21 Feb 06, 1:04 ] |
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Voltaire (I think) wrote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I would totally oppose anyone who denied the Holocaust. I would totally oppose anyone from the BNP trying to spread racist rubbish. I would totally oppose the reaction of anyone who tried to set fire to an embassy because of one small cartoon. But where does free speech stop and censorship begin - and who decides the boundaries???
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| Author: | Westy [ 21 Feb 06, 1:22 ] |
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Madeline wrote: I am appaled that anyones belief warrent a 3 year prison term.
I'm appalled that 11 million innocent men, women and children were systematically murdered by a state and people like Irving have the Gall to deny it happened and preach to others about it. |
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| Author: | gerbilgranny [ 21 Feb 06, 2:36 ] |
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Westy wrote: Madeline wrote: I am appaled that anyones belief warrent a 3 year prison term. I'm appalled that 11 million innocent men, women and children were systematically murdered by a state and people like Irving have the Gall to deny it happened and preach to others about it. I agree. Weird though, that here in Ireland, a 19 year-old got a four year prison sentence for murdering his 11-year old neighbour, and concealing the body. I feel sorry for the 19-year-old's parents, but it doesn't seem like the family of the victim saw much justice. 3 years for being a nasty individual, 4 years for murdering a child? |
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| Author: | Calrissian [ 21 Feb 06, 3:37 ] |
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Westy wrote: Madeline wrote: I am appaled that anyones belief warrent a 3 year prison term. I'm appalled that 11 million innocent men, women and children were systematically murdered by a state and people like Irving have the Gall to deny it happened and preach to others about it. now you see, your figure of 11 million. THAT is precisely the issue. You believe in 11 million.... the man in question does not. Yet, people like you are now clambering for people to be jailed for believing in different things. Would you like him tortured, until he repents? The lovely catholic church did that to many a good person who challenged their beliefs, and here we are 2006...and we now have a new cult of literal 'thought/belief police'. If China/Russia were to rain down the nukes tomorrow upon Western society, frankly...I would'nt stress or be sad about matters. What would Earth lose? A sick society that is now so repressed and stupid its once again jailing people for belief crimes. May whatever god 'some' of you people 'believe you have'....reject you at the gates of Heaven. Calrissian: 3pm - 4pm |
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