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And my comment about Jerry Springer (the Opera) was just my personal opinion - I can't find it funny at all and I just can't help it that it makes me feel sick (I've seen only a trailer of the Opera, and enough of his shows at late night). And my comment was related to Jerry Springer only.

But anyone who can stand it and wants to see the Opera - better go to see it!

I watched it on tv (well the first half that was enough!) and I thought it was utterly repelent. I hated it and complained to Offcom about it. No way was it a knee jerk reaction to it on my part. In fact I chose to watch it and make an informed decision so good on me too I guess However I don't have a problem with people not watching it if they KNOW they are going to be offended. For example the 'little old lady'' may want to have her christian voice heard based on information given about the show without having to sit through it. That's fair enough too imo.


I don't normally bother with this forum anymore I missed all this.

Doesn't sound like you had a knee jerk reaction HC - but an informed, honest one.
I have no problem with little old ladies deciding not to watch it as long as their decision is based on correct information.

My gripe is with the actual organisation called 'Christian Voice' because I feel that the information they give to people and which forms the basis of their protests is not always taken in context and can be inflammatory (ie they present a negative image of Christianity because they are so vehemently anti)

I would say definitely there were things about the Opera that I didn't like but I'm waiting until Cameron has seen it before i say any more (plus, it's been a while since it was on TV so I'm trying to remember as much about it as i can)

I also read press reviews and they have been right about alot of films that I have seen and plays too, so I can't imagine there is no smoke without a fire, anyway I know what I would do, I don have to go and watch something when I have be witness to it in real life.

I would agree with this and was in fact discussing it with a friend the other night. I feel sometimes such protests have the potential to paint a rather negative view of Christians....although I do believe it's right to object if people are offended - but it's up to Joe Punter to make a decision for himself.
You could choose to turn on the tv any night of the week and see similar or far worse..

I think I am going to go see it tomorrow too (just so I can put my tuppence worth into the debate ) - I can always vote with my feet if required

When I put that in on Friday I still thought I was going tonight, but that all changed yesterday. Who said women were indecisive?

Yes I agree, that IS fair enough. There remains a contingent though, who'll go on hearsay (note no apostrophe lol) and exaggeration too. Both elements are sure to exist.

yes absolutley re both elements. We need balance in all things


oh and re the second point, what can I say....... err sorry

No apology needed - just go on hearsay and exaggeration and you'll be fine!

um from where?

Hmm, true. Sorry lol.

OK, so you know where I stand

…on the theatre, I think it’s the best thing ever, am hugely enthusiastic about everything I see, can always find something to get excited about in any show whether it’s the script, direction, a bizarre performance etc, probably see a new show every couple of weeks, and, as one or two of you know, have more than a passing knowledge from the inside…

…on swearing, I don’t swear a lot myself, a lot of my colleagues swear, but I really only find it offensive when it’s an excuse for lack of vocabulary, or used to be aggresive.

…on religion, I am a practicing member of the C of E, but regularly go to other denominations and other religions’ services as an observer. Think I am a tolerant person, and am easy-going about humour in religion.

Also, I absolutely LOATHE someone telling me what they think of a show BEFORE I see it, as I like to make my own mind up, so, if you haven’t seen it yet, please don’t read any further!

About five years ago, I went to a show at the Battersea Arts Centre called Tourette’s Diva. There’d been a bit of a buzz of anticipation about it, which was truly justified. In this tiny room in the depths of a truly fringy venue, two women playing a dysfunctional mother and daughter gloriously sang their way through about a dozen set pieces around a “kitchen sink” set. I’m not sure I can quote any of the titles of the arias on this site, but they sang (both professional opera singers) the most graphically obscene lyrics littered with four-lettered words but with exquisite diction and beautifully turned musical phrases. The juxtaposition of high art and vulgarity made for a night of complete hysteria and was rather like Standup Comedy meets High Art. It was a huge hit, and The Show to have seen that year, and was, you guessed it, the precursor to Jerry Springer, The Opera.

So, when I hear that Nick Hytner had commissioned Richard Thomas to write Jerry Springer, I was VERY EXCITED INDEED! It was completely impossible to get tickets for months, and as I waited until I was due to see the show, the Arts press went into more of a frenzy than previously for Tourette’s Diva, and you couldn’t escape the hype in every publication. I remember even Heat Magazine had Noel and Liam Gallagher and whoever their girlfriends at the time were in the Spotted column in the audience at the National.

So the day came, and with great anticipation, I sat in my seat, with my favourite theatre-going mates, and with a smattering of friends in the cast (hey, we even knew Jesus!), all was set for a night of sheer hilarity and cutting edge theatre.

Well, dear friends, after the first 10 minutes, I realised that there was only one joke. Swearing. And there it was again, and again and again. And again. And I was, (and this has only once before happened to me at the theatre), I was

Bored

And although everyone else around us were cheering “Jer-ry, Jer-ry” and laughing hysterically at every swear word, I sat in disbelief, wondering if they were all believing the press hype, or just laughing as rude words, and mainly, wondering how the wonderful stylish, innovative, inspired Tourette’s Diva had morphed into this rather mediocre evening’s entertainment.

The things I liked about it? New art’s always a good idea, and it’s not a terrible piece of work. (I was just expecting more after the first show and all the hype for this one). The music is stylish, clever, intelligent, quoting opera, Handel, using fugues and operatic choruses dramatically and wittily. The cast was truly brilliant; great singers, all looking like real people which, sadly is becoming less and less the norm in opera houses where these days looking like a model is more important that vocal and acting talent. People relate to real people more than they relate to an ideal.

I know you’re all worried about the so-called blasphemy, but that didn’t bother me in the slightest. Act 2 was definitely the weakest part of the show, and was played as a pantomime, and I found the lack of dramatic tension more worrying than what people would think of Jesus saying he was “a little bit gay”.

What would Jesus think? I’m sure has a great sense of humour, is far more generous than me, and probably found the evening a whole lot funnier than I did.

I feel a bit silly saying 'Great Post, Chocolate Truffle', as who am I to judge what's a good or not-so-good post?

But it was great to read yours, anyway. I haven't seen Jerry Springer - The Opera, but I hope I'd agree with your last two lines.

I saw Billy Elliot in London, I was shocked at the swearing that came out of a very young boy, that spoilt it for me, I'm sure people don't have to swear that much to make a good show, maybe they put it in for shock value, the over all story was great, but not the swearing.

I've been guilty of having the occassional smattering of swear words in my every day language but wouldn't say I like it or am particularly proud of it, but although I haven't seen either of these shows and I think your post Truffle was very well observed, I do have one question. Presumably both of these shows particularly Jerry Springer are supposed to portray the subject in a realistic and true manner. I have only see the Jerry Springer show once on tv (and once was enough) and it was constant swearing, so would you not say that the show containing all the swearing was at least realistic in what it was trying to portray?

Btw my kids laugh constantly when the words poo, bum or willy are mentioned. Is laughing at swearing not just a grown up version of this?