BB FANS

Being in the service industry I've been able to play with various DAB products over the last year and in most cases haven't been too impressed.

Most of it seems down to the way the manufacturers were implementing the technology.

In fact most have been using the same receiver module and getting totally different results.

A good example is the Philips AZ6000 and the Ferguson FRGxxx wooded radio (sorry can't remember the number). Both have the same module for the DAB section but the reception is totally different. The Philips manages around 17 stations in the workshop where as it very lucky if we get anything on the Ferguson. The problem with the Ferguson appears to be the telescopic aerial that for some reason doesn't suit the receiver. Now if you unscrew the aerial using a long 10mm socket to undo the F-Connector and connect the tv aerial you get the same number of channels as the Philips.

Just recently if been playing with the Philips MCB700 which has a Sony DAB front-end which is much better that all the other models with maybe the MCB240 being the exception but I've never tried one on an external aerial as it has a wire 'T' aerial built-in.

Getting back to the MCB700 it appears a much better receiver with station number from 31 to 47 depending on conditions. Remembering that the same aerial has been connected to the Ferguson and ,although not properly ,to the Philips AZ6000.
We can now receive Cambridgeshire ,Leicestershire ,Herts and sometimes a few more

Now I've heard what it should be like I've decided to buy a real DAB separate tuner. I read a few reviews on the cheaper models like the ones Argos sell as a good starting point but have decided to go for a Cambridge Audio receiver. I already have a good spec separates set-up ,some of which is custom built or modified for my tastes ,so I wanted something that sounded good.

I've looked at the DAB300 which sounds good and at £114 isn't much more than the Argos ones ,but then I read the spec etc on the AZUR 640T V2 and am seriously thinking of buying one later in the week when the finances are available.

Look HERE for details on the receiver.

To go with it I'm going to install a dipole on the TV mast with a low noise masthead preamp. Now I might not need the preamp due to the location but I always like to maximise to reception and I normally get great results.

From this location I hear Belgian ,French ,and Dutch stations on VHF FM Band II. Also when I used to have a Band III directional aerial with the same masthead preamp I could watch Belgian TV in colour most days ,I also had weak signals from France and Luxembourg. So I'd expect some long distance reception.

Does anybody have a DAB set-up ? Portable ,separate receiver ? How many stations can you get ? If you live on the East or South coasts do you pick-up foreign stations on DAB ?

What are your thoughts ? Apart from the 'you must be mad spending that amount of money...'.

Ive got a Grundig Opus DAB.

I never use it. In Birmingham, the only interesting station we can get is 6Music.

Plus all the other stations are available on Sky Digital.

Looking a through a list of stations I found today once you remove the stations that are available via other Digital services you are then left with 'Local' radio.
And if you can pick-up enough multiplexes you are then able to listen to those normally just out of range stations on FM.

I know I can get local plus cambridgeshire stations on an aerial slung up on a door frame on a receiver that doesn't have a particuly good frontend so with an outdoor aerial at around 30ft with some gain should be very interesting.

I'm interested to know if DAB is used in Europe ,I know I have a path on Band III into Belguim and France for TV signals so this will also be interesting to see if anything appears.

One possible problem could be Co-channel interference with multiple multiplexes on the same channel. As I said before this is a very good location for long distance reception on all bands into the upper UHF frequencies and lower SHF area.
The Dunstable Downs Amateur Radio Television Repeater on the 24CM (1.3GHz) band can be received here without a pre-amp and without using excotic aerials and that's 30-40 Miles which is very good at that frequency.

I'm still interested to hear your experiences with DAB good and bad.

all very interesting stuff...

but what i would really like to know:

is the sound quality better than FM Stereo?
can you get more radio stations from further afield?
do they come with RDS?
what happens when one or more stations are competing for the same frequency?

With a low error count eg strong signal you should depending on the Digital to Anologue in the recceiver be able to get CD quality audio. Though from what I've read some of the cheaper seperate tuners aren't as good audiowise as they should.

Most seperate DAB or DAB/FM tuners are around £100 (argos have one for £89) ,but the quality of the reproduction varies a lot. Note the Cambridge Audio DAB 300 at £114 would make an excellent receiver without breaking the bank and you know you are getting a quality product and performance. The other models just fine tune things like with any other hifi product. The lower end does a good job for the normal listener which for the Audiophile they have the better more tweeked models that cost more and sound better on the right set-up.

Yes - In Wellingborough Northants with the Sony based receivers we can get Cambridgeshire stations and depending on atmospheric conditions Leicestershire and a few others so for traffic info you could use a more distant station for it's local reports. But it also depends on your location to what you can pick-up. In the workshop I'm only using the TV aerial from the distribution amplifier so no deadicated aerial.

There is scrolling text for all stations with program details just like RDS text and station Ident like RDS.

The Co-channel bit is the one I don't know about. I'd imagine the adjacent multiplexes would be offset to reduce any interference. If the error correction system can cope with the signals then you shouldn't suffer too much but if you get two strong signals then I guess you get no reception.
This is the bit that I might discover when my system is up and running.

cheers Larry. Am I also correct in thinking that some radio stations transmit at different bit rates (this determines the quality of the broadcast)? I think music-intense stations like Radio 3 broadcast at 196kb and talk-based ones like Radio 5 broadcast at 64kb.

Incidentally, many CDs are written at about 96kb, many [legal] file-sharing applications make downloads available at 128kb. I can notice the difference between the two, for example, when I listen to a CD that I've bought, and one I've burnt myself.

tf (worried, that he may be sounding a bit like Larry... )

Is it not, essentially, a waste of money with all the stations available on Sky/Internet?

Yes from what I've read some do use lower bit rates and this is where some of the cheap receivers fall away as the audio quality becomes noticably poorer.



The burning process depends a lot on the software used and the bit rate of the source material (MP3). For instance if you convert the same MP3 track to audio CD format eg make an audio CD using WMP , Realplayer ,and Nero Burning you can hear the difference even with the MP3 at 192Kb. I find that Nero produces results closer to the original. It worth noting that the expensive quality CD players are mainly using 192K DACs and when you hear your favourite CD on a 2000K player with a half decent amp etc it's a real eye opener. I've played with such a player but don't own one. Saying that I have a modified Philips CD 850MK1 with internal DACs removed and an external QED Digit DAC with a fully regulated Power Supply and the difference compared to a normal CD player is very easy to hear.



Well we can all get into the techno bable at times ,and yes I may be worse than others but so longers as the reader is still awake it's not too bad.

Must admit I haven't got Sky and haven't looked at the stations available to the non-subscriber.

I do have a motorised satellite system with over 3000 tv channels and I haven't a clue how many radio stations. I dare say with the digital link to the amplifier I could get some good sounds from it.

But it's like with most things where you have a very wide choice of channels ,after a while there's only a handful of them that you go back to.
There's very very channels I watch on satellite normally but I use it more for news and program links than real channels.
I've also got Freeview and if I was limited to the 17 DAB channels the Philips radio were getting I wouldn't bother as I'd have them all on Freeview. But knowing I can get more distant stations a lot easier than on Band 2 (FM) it seems like a good thing ,for me.

I will have a look at the Sky radio stations as this is something I haven't looked into.

As I said to someone else the other day for the last 20 years I specialised is digging out the seemingly impossible signals at both VHF and UHF. The only thing making me look away from the DAB 300 is that the new version of the other receiver sounds like it has a superior front-end and should be better for the fringe stations plus with improved DAC should have better sound even though it's almost twice the price of the DAB 300.

But this is why I'm taking note of your thorghts and experiences before making the plunge. So far I've only spent the cost of the aerial and am waiting for a reply regarding the preamp and diplexer.

Having done a scan of the Radio Stations that are free on Astra 2 (Sky) I have 105 most of which are available on DAB ,though the regional stations aren't there.

Also have read that DAB has just adopted AAC+ codec which means far better audio quality and more stations in the same bandwidth as a lower bit-rate can produce better sound than the current system. All sounds like the current system has a limited life span before the new system is introduced .

That I think puts a big spanner in the works and has put me off spend a couple of hundred on a receiver that could become useless is a short time.

I don't know how quick they could change things . Tests are already being run and have been for a few weeks using the new system. They could broadcast both systems for a while but if a receiver isn't future prove eg. upgradable then I think now isn't the time to buy. I'm more inclined to buy a small Sat dish and use my second receiver for radio.

Currently listening to KISS via Astra 2 which is one of the stations I've been listening to on DAB at work.
I'd still like access to some of the other local radio but I don't one to waste money on something that'll soon be obsolete.

Sky Radio is the end choise for now. I just bought a pack of 5 region 2 Sky dish kits .So my second receiver will only be used for radio. And I've already found a home for a second dish and think I can place the remaining 3 and make a small profit.

And tomorrow Jesops will be contacted regarding and possible trade-in to buy the Nikon D80 camera along with the money I'd put aside to buy the DAB gear and accessories.

Think this is the best option until Dual format DAB receivers start to appear. I can always get something cheap from work if I want to play ,we often get stuff where say the CD don't work and isn't worth fixing where the DAB works and I don't think it'll be long before a MCB700 comes along at a very cheap price.

Im looking for a little personal DAB radio for a reasonable cost. Any advice?

Well they all use the headphones as the aerial so you have two factors to play with.
1. Is the signal level in the area it's going to be used and two which isn't so obvious is the quality of the receiver.

I can tell you where to buy a Philips DA1000 for £39.99 plus delivery or you might want to try for one of these off Ebay. Now I know of two reoccuring problems with these. One is the On/Off button coming off the board inside though saying that the early production models were more prone to this.
And secondly they is a production problem with the battery switch in the power socket where it is possible for the batteries not to be switched back in when the charger plug is removed. Philips have used a slightly different socket in the later ones which have reduced the numbers being returned but the ones that 'work' sell should be modified to prevent this happening.

Argos do a few. The Pure DAB 2000 incorporates and MP3 player via an SD card. It also allows you to record onto the card. Cat num 5004836 .

They also do a Ministry of Sound DAB/MP3 player 500/4685 for £149. The first one by the way is £199.

Next is the Sony XDRM1 Handheld DAB/FM Walkman Radio. 500/4173 at £109. Now if the receiver is the same quality as the ones fitted to the Philips MCB700 Mini-systems then they should have a good frontend and do better with weaker signals.

Next is the Bush PSDAB2014MP3 Personal DAB with 256MB MP3 Player. 500/4678 at £99.

The Philips DA1000 is £89 in Argos.

Argos list a PURE PocketDAB Personal Rechargeable DAB/FM Digital Radio. 500/4661 for £89.

And a Mikomi Personal DAB/FM Radio. 500/4180 £59.

A Bush PSDAB2004 Personal DAB Radio. 500/3277 £49.

You'd need to do some searchs for reviews to get an idea what they are really like.

In the portable and HiFi ranges I've only seen to receiver modules used. Almost everybody uses the same basic module except Sony who have they own. And as I said this is also used in the new Philips systems and is miles better that the old one that appears in just about every other unit.

Personal units are probably different. I know the Tuner module in the Philips DA1000 is different to the larger models and performs about the same so doesn't appear as good as the Sony based models. I have worked with Philips equipment for 20 years and am not on the sales side because I tend to be too honest. If I don't think some thing is very good I don't lie to sell a product.

If your in a poor signal area then it won't really matter what you buy as you'll either get break-up or no signals. I suppose having the option of MP3 would useful if you enter a bad area and you can't find anything on FM worth listening to.

The other thing is when they quote battery life the figures tend to be for FM use though maybe the extra signal processing would reduce the life in DAB. Solid state MP3 playback normally give a long battery life but will still vary from unit to unit.

It's a shame you can't try a range of units in a shop to compare the quality before you buy. You could maybe do this is a currys or comet and then go and buy it else where.

It's a bit of a mine field out there.

Thanks a lot Larry, thats certainly given me a lot to consider.

Ill let you know how I get on.

Well against my own judgement I bought a tuner cheap from Argos for £89.
And using a Dipole on the TV mast at about 30ft I picks up 68 stations though only 50 appear when you go through the list. The instructions do say the it only stores UK stations which is a shame. There are also around a dozen that are borderline with break-up.
Some of the services are duplicated where signals ffrom more than one area are being recived.

So I have London ,Cambridgeshire ,Peterborough services for certain. The on-line postcode checker says I should only get around 17 channels with an out door aerial. But I'd like to know the other 18 channels that aren't listed ,I'll have to look for a manual tuning option which most DAB receivers have.